The #1 Evidence Based Growth Podcast on the Internet. The Science of Success is about the search for evidence based personal growth. It's about exploring ways to improve your decision-making, understand your mind and how psychology rules the world around you, and learn from experts and thought leaders about ways we can become better versions of ourselves.
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I I I don't think of, like, other than you, I don't think of most positions that are accurate being, like, bubbly and smiling all the time. Right? Like, I I do have a couple For sure. But most of them, I think, are more serious and, like, kind of reserved. Right. And that's a traditional thing. That's an old fashioned thing. And certainly a place for seriousness in medicine, but 99.5 percent of medicine is not it's outpatient. It's not like you're dying. It's not a femur fracture. So here's an interesting question. Where do patients like to see their doctor for the best customer service or the best patient experience? Do they like serious? Middle of the road or high. Now patients don't want the silly doctor. Hey, Madewa. How are you doing? Like, that's not what it's about. But if I come into the rooms, Matt, it's so good to see you. Hey. We got your lab tests. We're gonna take great care of you. If you believe your doctor likes you, You feel they're gonna do a better job. The number one determinant of patient compliances, do you like your doctor? And guess which doctors are more likable. Right? The ones who smile more. The ones who smile more. Guess which doctors get higher survey scores? The ones who smile more. Now by the way, doctors wear healers, entrepreneurs are healers. Right? Do you heal people's business wounds? If you have a apartment building, are you healing people's? They need a space. They need a place to live. You're healing that wound. You can consider anyone be a healer if you're a janitor, whatever your service is in business. When you are serving, people feel you're gonna do a better job if they think you like them. And by the way, the more you smile around your patients, you actually do like them more. It's diagnostic and therapeutic. Now there's tons of research to back this up. There are studies to show that when we smile more, our pain tolerance is higher. We can tolerate pain. Now in the workplace, entrepreneurs, and business, we have many painful situations. Would that be helpful if you or your team could tolerate more pain? Would that be helpful? Sure. Always. There's data to
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But you also need to understand other people if you're going to seduce them or con them or torture them or bully them. The sort of empathy I'm interested in is putting yourself in someone else's shoes, seeing the world as they do, feeling their pain. And a lot of people have argued this is really fundamental to morality. Empathy serves as a spotlight that zooms us in on people and makes them matter. And what I argue in my book is that this is mistaken, that empathy has all sorts of terrible effects. It makes us biased because we empathize with those who look like us and who are attractive and who belong to our group over others. It's enumerate because empathy makes us value the one over the many, and it leads to capricious and arbitrary and often cruel acts. A lot of violence is prompted by empathy for a victim. It leads to stupid policy decisions. It's because of empathy that governments and populations care more about a little girl stuck in a well than they do about a crisis like climate change. And even in personal relationships, empathy can mess you up. An example I like to think about, because it's from my own life, is that if my teenage son comes up to me, and he's freaking out because he hasn't done his homework and it's due tomorrow, and he's very anxious, I'm not being a good father if I feel empathy from him. I feel his anxiety and I share his anxiety. I get anxious myself. I'm best as a parent if I have some distance. If I say, Dude, calm down. Let's take a break. Let's go for a walk, And I love him and I understand him, but I don't feel what he feels. And I think it's the same for friendships. It's the same for romantic relationships. If I'm really depressed, I don't want my wife to see me and get depressed herself. I want her to try to cheer me up and try to make my life better. What we want from people and what makes it a better world isn't echoing their feelings. It's responding lovingly and intelligently to them. So your your definition is
Expression, the cellular level is more determined by the environments you're in, the choices you make. And so, yeah, I mean, at all levels, situationally, relationships, all of those things are based on your environment. For me, it's powerful because not only does it show that we're we're fluid, that we can actually be changed, that our environments aren't I mean, that our personalities aren't fixed, but it's always changing. And that it can change from one situation to another, especially when you're purposefully taking on new roles. But then you can make a lot bigger jumps in your self improvement. Like, rather than just incrementally trying to improve something, like, just kind of hacking away at some skill, you put yourself in situations that force you to operate at a higher level. And that's kinda why I think Jim Rohn said, you know, don't surround yourself with people who are you know, people with low expectations. Surround yourself with with a difficult crowd where the expectations for demands are high because that's how you'll grow. And so, yeah, those are some thoughts. I think that's a really interesting point that our sort of identities and personalities can be changed by manipulating our environment. Definitely. I mean, yeah. Our environment, in a lot of ways, shapes our our personality. Like, a lot of people that were unintentional about it, You know, they they fall into roles that then they just, like, believe to be their intrinsic personality when it's really just a role they're playing out, whether it's, like, being someone funny. Doctor Gabor Mate, he's one of the best thinkers on addiction. He's developed this really cool perspective, and it really isn't even his own. It comes from other people. But he's got this great perspective on personality. That personality, obviously, is definitely not some intrinsic trait, but it's more an adaptation. And it's an adaptation to situations or to just dealing with, you know, unresolved traumas. So, like, if a child goes through some hard experience, they have this need for belonging, and so they'll adapt their personality to keep that need for belonging. And, you know, kids in high school students do that all the time. You know, in order to fit in with the crowd, they shape their their behavior. They
Something. Let's say my husband says something else, an entirely different point of view. I have something to contemplate because more often than not, people are right. And even if they're not, it gives me another point of view. It gets me in touch with who they who they are. You know, just there's so much there that, you know, I could go on and on and on about it. People are here to educate me, not the other way around. So I love listening and thinking for myself because ourselves are all we're ever going to deal with. So there's a lot of different things that I that I wanna unpack from that. Let's start with the concept of having to be right. And and for someone who is not familiar with you and your work, you know, what happens or why do people get caught up in in having to be right? Well, it's ego based. It forms our identity. And if I can hang on to what I believe, then I am right. And that is always an I ego that's right. That there's an argument. But if someone has another point of view, even if it directly contradicts mine, even if they're even, even if they appear to even be angry in it, am I listening beyond what I'm believing about their anger? Am I listening? Am I open? Am I growing and expanding this mind of mine? Is it something I haven't considered before? It's, I just don't have to be right. I'd rather be free. You know, we get stuck in that. If someone says, for example, I am Katie, you're wrong, then then my response would be, you know you know, I have I haven't even considered that. Maybe I might say that, or I might just cut to the chase and say, tell me more.
